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NEW LIBERTY VILLAGE
HOUSING AND SHELTER

To provide shelter for oneself and one's family entails a huge commitment of time, resources and energy.  Paying towards a mortgage or rent structures one's life in ways we might choose far differently, given half the chance.  Paying for a house, plus the groceries and monthly utility bills, demands a full time job.  No other single commodity so binds humans to the status quo and other person's ideas in the struggle for a good life. 

When we consider the price paid for today's methods of putting a roof over one's head, the cost to the earth and it's ecosystems must also be considered.  Prevalent building methods are inefficient, expensive and destructive to the environment. Every other creature on earth except man has found a niche in the overall health of the earth and it's systems.  It surely must be that mankind too could tune into it's true needs and desires, designing and building accordingly in an ecologically sound manner.

We are especially interested in hearing, and publishing, alternative plans and suggestions for shelter that is environmentally sustainable, aesthetically and functionally pleasing, and reasonably inexpensive.  If you have knowledge and experience to share, please consider POSTING  it here for publication in this section of New Liberty Village, and participating in the New Shelter Discussion Group. 

 
Note: If you think your ideas are original and you intend to apply for patent protection sometime in the future, it is suggested you read the Proprietary Rights page before submitting them to us for publication.

New Shelter Discussion Group archive


Hello, 

My predicament is somewhat similar to that of Melynda's posted on 1 June 2003.  

A suggestion: inexpensive property lots can be found at: http://www.governmentauctions.org/login.asp . Here are some other sites of interest:  http://www.walrus.com/~ddprod/michaeljantzen/hsri.html  . 

I must find/make alternate housing for myself but my time-frame is very limited.  I will be without a home in 6 weeks on March 30, 2004, with very limited funds. There are twists and turns to the story but I won't take up precious space here right now.  A good blanket explanation is that I have had a total reversal of fortune (health & wealth).  Basically I'm trying to find fast-inexpensive (borderline welfare)-minimal labor-single person construction - low temperature (I live in Ontario) - permanent solutions.  

I will make a point to visit here daily. I've already armed myself with the many links I found here and I'm off to 'search'.  My URL is also a wonderful site dedicated to free photo posting. You are able to keep your own album there and have it ranked as private, semi-private or public. I have seen some breathtaking photos there. Mine are mundane - I am selling all my household treasures but it's too cold for a yard sale.  I'm using the site as a preview so friends & neighbors don't have to battle the snow banks to reach me and then find there's nothing of interest for them.  Thank you for this site, for offering your knowledge and guidance.

May you live as long as you want 
And never want as long as you live
Be well, Mary

August 4, 2003

Jennifer  felynefancy@aol.com
Food Dehydrators

I am interested in purchasing a dehydrator. Any suggestions? Any one product I should stay away from?  Thanks,  j

----------------

August 4, 2003
Jerry B  liberty@kaballero.com
Jenny,

After coming across many different sources, all recommending the Excaliber dehydrators as the best, we ordered the Excaliber five tray model.  http://www.excaliburdehydrator.com/cat7.htm  They are quite pricey, but I think they are worth the extra cost over the round, stackable models.  The Excaliber has the heating unit and fan in the back of a rectangular box, and all shelves  receive a relatively uniform flow of heated air.  Using the  models with the fan and heater at the bottom, the lowest trays dry first, requiring continued shifting of their position.  Just depends on what one can afford or how much attention one wishes to devote to the project.  Our Excaliber has a timer which also is nice, and we are generally very satisfied with it.  We probably should have gotten the nine-tray version for just a few bucks more, though it was a hard decision to make since it requires a lot of produce to fill up the larger one.  To be able to do a large amount at once when the garden is at it's peak would have been nice also.

I also have built a large solar dehydrator, however there has not been a cloudless day this summer here in Virginia.  Haven't even been able to give it a try.

Jerry B

August 2, 2003
Shelbydodge:

Hey Melynda, and others interested. 

On the links section of my website there is a link to an organization that helps caretakers find jobs in the country.  This could be a method to help you escape from the trap of poverty in the city and could possibly give you some income as well.  The site is  http://the-crystal-key.com .


June 1, 2003

Melynda

I am a 25-year-old single mother in Virginia. All my life I have felt like the world is a rat race that seems so easily avoidable if people only chose to change. But I never thought I would actually be too poor for simplicity. This, I am.

I have a young daughter and no family support. I want to do right by her and not place her in daycare as she was born with a couple special needs. So I live in an apartment in a bad area and I do what I can to pay the bills. But electricity is so expensive and so are the food bills and because I do not have a great education, no job I get really ever leaves me feeling like I can care for myself and my daughter.

I'm a pretty simple person. One of my dreams is to grow corn in my own yard. Does anyone know of any type of funding so that my daughter and I can live a simpler lifestyle, grow our own food on our own piece of land and escape this endless struggle I have found myself fighting? Please respond if you have any info. I would be willing to travel anywhere. I don't want my daughter to grow up thinking that this is the way life is supposed to be. I want her to be fulfilled knowing herself and the Earth instead of struggling to have what "everyone else" has. THANKS SO MUCH!

--------------------


July 8. 2003
Sheila P
Melynda

Melynda's situation really has me thinking...  I loved your answer, Kevin, and Donna, thank you for posting it here. I don't have much to add to what you said, except that some of the WAHM (work at Home Moms) are doing really well selling cloth diapers and baby things. Tie dyed stuff is big too.... wonder what her
talents are? If I were her I would look at what I could do from home.... Also I would read anything by John Holt regarding Unschooling..... I would look for community... seek an organic co op and see if they give shares away to those in need.... And yes I agree, become the energy you want to be. If you can't get to the homestead yet, bring the home stead to you....  : ) 

I am amazed at the feeling of well being I am getting just from my 3 (yeah, I added another!~) raised beds. Sunflowers, cukes, parsley, tomotes, summer squash are all coming soon : ) The fruit trees are doing well and it looks like we will get several peaches to eat this year! I still do not have the dream homestead but the dream is coming closer. For Melynda the question is really, how to make the jump....? I think making the dream big enough some how brings it into existance, if that makes any sense... Please update us if you hear anything more aobut her, ok? Yet so much of this could be done as container gardens!   Her note does point out one way in which our society really lets people down, single parents, usually mothers, but sometimes fathers too... have a really hard time getting ahead. What more could they do with one good acre of land and some building materials than with what we, as a society, give them?  Thanks.

I just thought of another thing to tell Melynda - go to http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/messages/
scroll down to where it says "free books for non profit organizations". Tell her to e-mail Joe and explain her situation. I did and he sent me out a free copy. Joe is the Author of the "Humanure Comosting book". This would be something she could read now and it might come in handy for her later if she gets some land. Sure does open up some horizons when you are not looking at dropping $8K or more to put in a septic...

I also have several issues of "Mother Earth News"- probably 2 years worth of back issues I could send her if she would be interested.

Sheila  P
-----------------------------------------


June 30, 2003
Kevin:  earthstar97@yahoo.com
To Melynda

My heart aches for you and your situation. And I know exactly what you are going through because I was in the same place you are 10 years ago. I had just gotten divorced and was living with two of my daughters in an apartment. I had a dead in job which was temporary and about to end, mucho debt (more than I want to admit), daycare costs, no money in the bank, no property, no future, no hope... Then somehow I ended up with a book entitled "The Ecological Health Garden - A book of survival" and that really set things spinning for me.  Because what I wanted was the same thing you expressed. I wanted to be able to grow my own food, at least something..and I'd rather be poor in the country than poor in the city. The trouble was, how was I going to make the great leap, how was I going to make the exodus I needed?  And that is where I see that you are.

So here is the best answer I can give for you...it is the answer I wish I'd have been given back then..."focus". You have to concentrate on your exodus with every ounce of attention you have and in the meantime, move toward that exodus in practical ways. You don't have to own a piece of land to grow food. That is what is so magical about the biogenic approach to living. Even in your little apartment right now you can start to generate the momentum and energy you need by growing biogenic (life generating) indoor greens.  In simple little pots (12" dia x 5" deep) you can start to produce buckwheat greens, lentil greens, wheat grass portable meadows, biogenic batteries, beet greens, onion and garlic greens and in quart jars grow the most vibrant living young grasses and sprouts. You can make homemade, fermented cheeses, seed mixes, Sourdough bread, soaked almonds, plant a fruit tree in a pot), and start to surround yourself with the energy that you are longing for ---right where you are.

This may not sound like the kind of solution you want but you have to trust me, this is what Donna and I did while still living in rental property. We started to eat this kind of food and surround ourselves with plant energies and guess what, it changed the way we felt, it changed our consciousness and how we thought about ourselves and it lead us to creative solutions that we never believed could happen. It helped launch us out of the situation and things eventually started to happen for us. I cannot explain how it happened, it just did. There was a momentum that took over.

I really feel for you at this stage of your life, but you can do this. You are young and creative and you can move toward this kind of life right where you are. And it can make all the difference to you and your daughters' life.  Of course, there are small circles of communities that you could seek out such as the people in Missouri at (www.dancingrabbit.org) but the thing is, that is a community that you have to go join and follow and commit too. That may be great for some people but not everyone is cut out for that kind of life. I suppose that Donna and I are are a community of two, but it will never be more than that. We wouldn't want it to be. Though we would like to have some sense of community, some friends to hang out and work with, the reality is that there are very few people who have the pre-conditions to live that kind of life. But it doesn't matter, because the skills one needs to live the biogenic lifestyle are really very simple. There is no theology or belief system behind it, just practical solutions to real life. Please consider this and see if it feels right for you, and best wishes for the future.

Peace be with you,
Kevin
-------------------------

June 3, 2003
Jerry B: jeru@kaballero.com

Melynda,

As far as finding funding, I have little to suggest.  Our present social forms are not set up so that capital and land become available according to ability of use and individual needs and talents.  Your  heartfelt note makes me deeply wish I could recommend  checking out the opportunities offered in a real time loose-knit community such as the cyber-village imaged here in this website.  Fortunately for us, my wife and I have a humble four-acre farm and some neighbors that seem to be coming together here in Northern Neck Virgina.  What part of the state do you live in?  Maybe you could pay us a visit sometime.  I'd be happy to correspond with you privately at  the above e-mail address if you are so inclined.

Jerry B

April 9, 2003
Mark:  naturist-art-ic@yahoogroups.com

Hello,
These earth forms seem to me, the best idea I have seen, I would like to hear from anyone who would like to talk about intentional community in Southern California, based in permaculture.
PEACE! sanpedrosaint @yahoo.com

Darren, drrnmac@aol.com
Quonset Huts

 I was considering building a quonset hut home.  Has anyone ever done this?  I was concerned about the heating and cooling.  My wife is concerned about the asthetics.  Does anybody know of anyone who has done this before?  If so, could you give me a name or website for more info?  Some construction hints would be great!  Thanks,   Darren

December 1, 2002
joedupont@juno.com

URL =
www.excelon.com

Interested in bowing lumber with cable. laying it flat and bow it . with arch up. and spanning say 14 feet. with 3/8 playwood over this. has anyone done this? If you had an in the ground house then the walls could brace the lumber upwards..

November 26, 2002
Barb homecumming@att.net

I've decided on a low cost, sustainable housebuilding technique. The trouble I'm having now is with finding low-cost land on which to build. Land is so expensive! Any ideas?



Jerry e-mail here
Barb,

My wife and I were very fortunate. We inherited a small amount of money, enough to pay cash for a run-down farm house and four acres in Eastern Virginia, all for $35,000. We spent the first year remodeling the house, establishing a garden etc. One of the features that came with it was that there was a homeowner's association requiring membership, though this has not proved too much of a hassle for us. This fact, I think, has discouraged much development of the other parcels, and now there are several lots for sale going for around $5,000 per 3 acre lots. The lots are in a meadow surrounded by forest, and borders on an inlet into the Chesapeake bay. Pretty ideal if the water never rises above 20 feet. I will soon be applying for an 'experimental shelter' building permit with the county for my 20' underground/bermed structure. Building regulations for the area are of course one thing to keep in mind. .

Sorry I have little to suggest except to keep your eyes open. Relative inexpensive land is there, somewhere, waiting for you to find. Follow your attractions to the area you want to be in. Property offered at auction for unpaid taxes can be found, 'they' say. One of these lots here sold for $2,500 at auction for 3 acres. We soon gave up on the idea of free land being available under any arrangement. I think it would be great if 'rights of use' of land could be distributed, instead of land as a commodity. There are some 'eco-village' ventures around but none with which I am familiar enough to recommend. Hope others have some good advice to add. Jerry

October 21, 2002
Barbara
Always "trying"

Hi! I'm sooo glad to see this site up and running again. I first found it several years ago... I think it may actually have been not too long after it first came online. Never posted, but read and re-read everything. My "dream house" is a B.E.L.L.! Whenever I get upset with daily life, waste, etc. I pop back onto this site and get an injection of hope and motivation. Thank you so much! I, too, am interested in *seeing* the changes you have made to the BELL and surrounding areas. Barbara

Barbara,

You may be interested in checking out the new EarthStar Creative Simplicity forum . I know that Kevin and Donna would be interested in your encouraging comments so I have forwarded your post to their forum. Jerry B

October 1, 2002
Jerusha shalomhavurah@acninc.net\par

I am wanting to build a straw bale home in Oklahoma. Would love to hear from anyone in Oklahoma who has already done it.

cory whitney [mailto:corywhitney@hotmail.com]
Subject: Sauna

Hey all,

I am writing to represent an anxious work crew at a Vermont college.
We here at Sterling College have burnt down 4 saunas in the last 30 years
and would like to build something that will not burn down. Actually if we
want a sauna it must be fire proof.
As Sterling is running a deficit at this point (we only have 70 students)
we have little to no funds for this project.
Any kind of feedback for our plight would be very much appreciated.
Thank you, Cory Whitney
__________________

Reply:

December 03, 2000
Jerry B  e-mail
Sauna 

Cory, 

I wish that I had a working model of what I have often considered building: a sculpted Finnish sauna,  using the earth to reverse-mold a dome of the appropriate size. The benches, the fire pit, practically everything could be easily shaped in the compact, undisturbed soil, then  cobbled with a thin layer of concrete, say two inches thick. The earth then removed from underneath the shell after it has set.  If desirable, the dirt could then be placed over the structure, and landscaped and planted with grass. 

The sauna could be built completely above grade, partially above grade, or completely underground.  About the only cost would be for a few bags of concrete, and sand.  American Indians, I understand, made small sweat lodges in a hole dug in the ground, covered with a hide, but this would be much more permanent.  

Aesthetically speaking , the shape could be sculpted practically anyway one's imagination and time allows. The structure would be fireproof, and require no maintenance. It would also make a great storm shelter, although I have heard of few tornadoes in Vermont (g).  Never know in these days.  Openings could be molded into the shell for ventilation and light, and covered with glass or operable vent covers.  I can't foresee any difficulties or problems with this, for a sauna.  If you haven't seen my rough drawings and animation for the Liberty House design, check out www.geocities.com/newlibertyvillage/shelter.htm  then go to 'More details'.  If you try these methods, I would like very much to hear how it turns out.  Maybe you can build a gymnasium for the school while you are at it (g)  I would like to hear more about your college, when you have the time.   Does it have a web page?  Jerry B

January 22. 2000
Mike & Tammy, michaelfromor@webtv.net,
low cost housing 

Kevin and Donna,

Your web page [EarthStar] is great.  It gives me new hope.  I own a few acres of land in the Missouri Ozarks and have been looking to build a low cost home between the rent we pay now and all the other bills it leaves us.  With very little to save, we have been able to scrape together a couple thousand, but when looking at material costs, and the fact that we have only minimal construction experience, we have been discouraged. Your web page has given us new hope. Did you use any green lumber to build?  I know using green lumber would cut our costs by at least 1/3.  I  would like to know what other people's experience was building with less than dry wood.  Please let us know,  Mike & Tammy



January 13. 2000
Ted, THE_FOCI@hotmail.com
Housing

I have found that housing is a short, middle, long-term thing; yea even longer. A person who is young and has access to amenities can build a lean-to in a different place every two to three nights and be happier than a monkey with a peanut machine. Careful exposure to the elements enhances the life force, strengthens the immune system in the sense that natural problems are not such. Of course, this also weakens one to the man-made (enhanced) viruses existing in buildings, hospitals, and other breeding grounds. (TANGENT - sorry).

A yurt can go where the space is - simple.  My personal desire is that of a dwelling that can be used in three generations future with minimal upkeep. A structure that is underground partially, or fully would be happy. A structure set in rock at a higher elevation is desired to avoid flooding (an obvious difficulty). Granted - the desire for such a solid state dwelling is in light of drastic climate changes, and storms in areas where the likelihood is high.  Radon gas emission is worth testing for as this can be a cause for more than a headache. This is the reason that the government at large does not permit citizens to build dwellings completely underground. The stated reason. More or less --- it's hard to tax someone you can't find.  Heaven forbid they own firearms - it would be ever so much more difficult to raid such a 'compound'.

O K;  Fruit trees are a step up (or laterally) from the sprouting phase of nutrition.  Our bodies are designed to eat and digest fruit. We would take generations to bring ourselves collectively back to this as we have ingested and mutated through our observance of hedonisms and 'What we could get'.

Pardon the pun, but fruit trees don't come to fruition over night. A generation down the line would be never without if fruit trees are planted as shelter/shade. As in the Permaculture principle,  the heat exuded from a house or dwelling would allow survival of fruit trees in climates that would usually not allow their survival in the winter  (if a house is above ground as the Benedictines utilized-they just didn't call it Permaculture- God's laws, I think they called it).

Large rock is a laborious method of developing a structure, yet up to now was grand for insulation rating as well as repelling the most drastic of elements. With the induction these pressed straw and/or earth blocks easier variations are available. I still have an affection for the novelty of the stone. Temperature six to eight inches beneath soil remains a relatively constant 59 degrees. Obviously creating a desire for a wood stove. Electricity can be provided by solar panels for blowers on the woodstove (if desired, and if the structure is of any size), a cooler, and a freezer (key), juicer, airflow and purification unit(s), freeze-drying (or vacuum-sealer), and so on.

The biggest catch is probably achieving a perk site. The Hunzas had a well in the 'basement' of their homes that they pulled water up from. They also lived in a climate that needed no freezer as the steep angles on their roofs allowed food to be stored in the attic in closer proximity to the outside snow and ice (like a dunces hat).

One of the draw backs to this (dwelling) or even the Liberty dwelling is being near (remotely) the effects of human 'betterment' projects. The water tables have been run askew from us so bad that many plants have been added to the endangered species' list for 'local' areas. Not because the plants are not available in abundance in a region - but because the environments in an area have been destroyed in the sense that water does or does not sit with consistency anymore (Acorus Calamus is an example - similar to 'cat-tails'). This damage to the water tables can affect the dwellings' supply of water as well as availability of water to wildlife, medicinal plants and so forth.

The finding of a cave(s) would be a score in which to build on in my opinion.  Steel girders may be desired as safeguards, in light of a structure lasting until a century or two away. The freemasons have information that was collected from the Arabs and elsewhere that allows for buildings that work with acoustics, air flow, and other methods of western 'feng-shui'. The mechanical engineering dept. at NCSU has access to nifty stuff in this vein, as do other places I'm sure.

Granted, this may seem like a hermit lifestyle but only if one wishes. There are entire cities underground in Switzerland, China, and elsewhere. An entire community could reside in such a place. I envision such an environment that could allow a couple to five families (or more) using central facilities ie. library, float tank, etc. Or more integrally, a community of youths that are learning and growing beyond the media & death culture, for adapting to, and learning to survive, in a rapidly changing world.

A world in which the most prepared individuals are going to be taken by surprise and knocked off center by the paradigm shifts striking us in this outdated and ineffective milieu that has conditioned the use of time, self-image, motivation, and the vision among youth of helplessness and a narcissistic world view. My love, Ted

May 31, 1999
Rick and Grace,
regener@poncacity.net
Sustainable Housing Okla Tornado

There are a number of people in Oklahoma interested in alternative housing, especially straw bale, since wheat is in abundance. I am trying to create an outreach to find homeless tornado victims who would be interested in building alternative housing, and perhaps a foreman, architect, and volunteers. Also, people who could donate materials. We need to do this as a start in Oklahoma.



December 25, 1998
Kevin & Donna,
dphilipp@eatel.net
Voluntary Creative Simplicity & the BELL

Hi, just a short note about what we are doing. When we met in 1992, Donna and I were looking for another way to live, outside of the entanglement and consumeristic society.   Since then we've made incredible progress and feel motivated to share our discoveries. In reading about earth-friendly alternatives we came across the idea of a simple dwelling called the B.E.L.L. (biogenic ecodesic living lighthouse).  It is a 309 sq ft 8-sided, circular dwelling that contains 22 windows all the way around. Construction cost less than $5000. It facilitates a healthy lifestyle in communion with nature, and minimizes fuel and utility costs. One can actually live in a BELL without the need of electricity, or at least, rely on a PV system only. Heat is by wood stove. The major advantage is the use of space and the ability to grow indoor greens, such as wheatgrass, buckwheat and sunflower, because of the abundance of fresh air and light. The indoor greens make up 50% of our diet, thereby reducing our food bill significantly. We are able to minimize the need for a large kitchen and garden, are able to catch rainwater, which also reduced our need for installing a well or relying on city/rural water hookup. We are hoping others are interested in this unique life-generating lifestyle that promotes ecological and environmental responsibility.


December 25,1998
Re: Voluntary Creative Simplicity & the BELL
Jerry B jeru@kaballero.com
ICQ chat number 22180390 

Kevin and Donna,

Merry Christmas! Every statement you made about your BELL house; heating with wood, growing indoor greens, your diet, your rainwater catch system, etc. has filled me with questions. Of what materials is the house built? Did you build it yourself? With that many windows, is loss of heat a problem? What part of the country do you live? You must be familiar with the writings of Ann Wigmore concerning wheatgrass, sprouts and other live foods? My wife and I want to know more about your diet. How has your diet helped you? How much detail are you willing to share? Could you kindly send us any other comments or articles? If you can send drawings and plans, or photo's we will publish them here in this site. When we begin building the new online community, we can include your type of house, and if you wish, will devote a separate web page to it. Sure hope to hear more!   Jerry B


December 9, 1998
wakell@phnx.uswest.net,
Subject: Sandwich Houses

I would like to know if anyone has any information on the subject of sandwich houses ?
It's similar to adobe but the mixture is different. Please supply any information you have. It would be
greatly appreciated. Thanks.

August 6, 1998
email:  j.martin16@gte.net
subject:  alternative housing construction

I scanned a book several years ago and now, of course, cannot find it.  The subject matter of the book was the construction of housing for third world areas using clay, one of the world's most abundant resources. The clay was formed into bricks, stacked up, and then "fired" (they used 55 gallon drums of kerosene placed on the structure's top, hoses and a small hand pump to route the fuel for the fire) into a solid brick house.  The structure was largely covered with bermed dirt then. The architect was Iranian or Iraqi but I don't remember his name.  I believe housing has been constructed in this country on Native American reservations.  I do not recall anything more about this construction process and would like to hear from anyone who knows more about it.  Thanks!  John Martin 

The architect was probably Nader Khalili, now working in Hesperia, California. The URL for his website is http://www.calearth.org. I want to read further about his in-place firing of the structures, but it would seem to me that if these methods were widely adopted, there would be great environmental repercussions from the burning of whatever fuel chosen was to heat the brick. His use of bags of on-site earth materials, without firing, seems more ecologically sound, to me, and is a method I also want to experiment with further.  Jerry B.

Nov. 28, 1997
subject: Alternative Earth-friendly Housing
I live at City of the Sun Foundation near Columbus, New Mexico.  We, as members are vastly distinct personalities, but many wish to build sustainable alternative homes, or just explore what can be built.  Would like to communicate with like-minded builders.  We are in touch with the Southwest Environmental Center in Las Cruces, and also with Alternative Construction Workshops at Kingston, New Mexico, some of which links back to the Nader Khalili workshops in Hesperia, California. Many people need and can benefit from alternative homes, composting toilets, solar energy.  Thanks, Maya
 

Nov. 28, 1997
Maya,

Is the Foundation you are a member of a type of intentional community? You mention the Nader Khalili workshops. I just recently visited his Cal-Earth web-site,  (slow loading graphics) and was introduced to their use of earth bags in construction. Do you know anyone who has attended the workshops in California, or are actually building earth-bag dwellings to live in, in New Mexico? Do the Alternative Construction Workshops have a web-site? I am interested in learning more about this method, which uses any available soil or sand to fill bags, and barb-wire to keep them in place. I was very impressed with the appearance of their structures. I wonder if they ever berm or cover the structures with earth, and how difficult it is to line the inside surfaces. Do you intend to build a house yourself?

I recently have came across another related site you may be interested in, http://www.auroville-india.org/csr/ertharch.htm#Diversity
especially their work with CEB, (Compressed Earth Blocks), another new concept to me. I want to further explore and experiment with this method when the weather clears. Your New Mexico sands should make good reverse forms for shoring either compressed block or sprayed or poured concrete domes. Jerry B.




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